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Monday, March 31, 2014

Underhill et al., 2014

Today, I just want to show the frequencies of the R1a subbranches in the tested regions of the latest Underhill publication. The Middle East shows the highest diversity when it comes to SNPs. The authors wrote that "phylogeographic data lead us to conclude that the initial episodes of R1a-M420 diversification occurred in the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey", which is basically Kurdistan and Iran.

Middle East:
Central Asia/Southern Siberia:

South Asia:

Eastern Europe:

Western/Northern Europe:

Central/Southern Europe:




  1. I have not been able to read this study yet, so my opinion will probably change at least a little. My initial opinion is that i doubt R1a Z283 expanded from west Asia because there is prove in ancient DNA that bronze age peoples supposed to be early Indo Iranians were undoubtley European and were dominated by Y DNA R1a1. Also it just happens that R1a1 has been found in the Corded ware culture which is supposed to be ancestral to later Indo Europeans in eastern, central, and northern Europe. Indo Europeans must be the source of R1a S224 and therefore most modern R1a.

    Did this study even mention that? Like i said before my opinon may totally change. It is defintley possible R1a M417 originated in west Asia but i think it mainly spread later with Indo Europeans from eastern Europe.

    1. Ancient DNA was not tested for Z93 or Z283. So, you are starting a very speculative discussion.
      Let's focus on the data we have so far, let's not focus on speculations.

    2. Alright i won't post again after this till i read the study. Even today one of Z93's hotspots is central Asia and even in southern Siberia around where the Andronovo and other Indo Iranians lived. What evidence is there of a people from northern west Asia who rapidly spread acroos Europe, near east, and central asia during the metal ages? There is evidence of a people from eastern Europe who spread acroos Europe, central asia, and the near east and they are the Indo Europeans. Plus there is prove in ancient DNA early ones in Europe and Asia were full of R1a1. Maybe it went from west asia-east Europe-everywhere.

    3. According to the paper Z93 is not very diverse and old in South Siberia.

      "Although haplotype diversity is generally very high (H>0.95) in all haplogroups (Supplementary Table 3), lower diversities occur in south Siberian paragroup R1a-Z93* (H=0.921), in Jewish R1a- M582 (H = 0.844) and in Roma R1a-M780 (H = 0.759), consistent with founder effects that are evident in the network patterns for these populations (Supplementary Figure 2)."

  2. If the authors didn't ignore CTS4385 and L664 they would realize that European M417 is more diverse than Asian M417.

  3. L664 is not a very old branch, which can be seen by the low STR diversity; CTS4385+L664- is only known for a single individual from UK, so it is a bit premature to make big conclusions based on this one individual.
    One thing that you should keep in mind is number of tested R1a individuals. Underhill et al., has a total of 1694 tested Europeans with R1a but only 345 tested R1a individuals from the Middle East.

    1. L664 is the result of the same star like expansion of M417 that also involved Z282 and Z93, which most likely started during the Copper Age from somewhere in Europe. So it's not that young.

      Underhill thought that R1a came from the Indus Valley, and now he's moved things to Iran. Eventually he'll get it right, or someone else will.

    2. L664 is younger than Z284 and older than M458. L664 is not even close to the age of Z282 or Z93.

  4. Thanks for your website and all hard work you post ! This is one small step in demolishing Gimbutas Mallory Anthony theory of Ukraine/Kurgan !

  5. A, 6 Y DNA results from copper age Kurgans in the Pontaic steppe will prove that Indo Europeans are the source of most modern R1a. There is already prove early Indo Iranians and early Indo Europeans in central Europe had a high amount.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. No Kurgan are found in Veda Sanskrit. No mention in Avestan. No mention among Medes, no kurgan whatsoever in Kurds. The oldest KUR is mountain by Sumerians. A great portion of the R1a as shown above, and R1b Kurdish R1b-343 and Lurs R1b. Kurdish mountain folk. Iranian had words for snow and grapes and wine. Those touted R1b Assyrian samples are Kurdish and or Armenian, it is only a matter of time before this becomes evident. Check out the word for wine yourself, in Akkadian and Syriac.

      Wine is Proto-Indo European and Proto Kartvelian and Proto Semitic.{not Akkadian and Syriac because they originate around Dates not Grapes}

      Even Slavic use the same as Hittites and and old archaic Greek and Anatolian for wine how can this be in Kurgan theory?

  6. Why are in all subclade tabels only Jewish Arabic Kirgiz or Tatar.
    R1a1a is the major Iranic-Aryan haplogroup and in no one you can see someone about them is this fucking politics or what why in subclades i see fucking arabs and turks are they claim our genetic too.

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