Based on the figure 6 of the publication (see below), the following Y-STR haplogroups were observed in the Kurdish village of 'Dokukoy': E3b, I1b1, I1b2, J1, J2a, R1a, and R1b in a total of 31 tested individuals from 'Dokukoy'. E1b and J2a are dominating in the Kurdish village, while R1b, R1a, I1b1, I1b2, and J1 are present but relatively low.
A closer look at the Y-STR values of 31 tested individuals from 'Dokukoy' (can be found in the supplementary information) reveals that a lot of cases of J2a are identical or have a very narrow star-like occurence, so maybe Gokcumen et al. just tested a lot of relatives. A even more extreme pattern can be seen in the data set of the village 'Gocmenkoy' (Residents of 'Gocmenkoy' identify themselves with the Afsar clan of the Oguz tribe). Thus, I will not use any of the calculated Y-haplogroup frequencies of this publication, they are misleading. Pictures are sometimes better than 1000 words:
Green, red, blue, and yellow indicate the 'Gocmenkoy', 'Dogukoy', 'Eskikoy', and 'Merkez' settlements, respectively.
What can be used from the publication are the variation of observed Y-STR values of the Kurds of 'Dogukoy'.
I will compare these observed Y-STR haplotypes with published data and databases, maybe these 'Kurdish haplotypes' are present in other populations as well. As a starter, just the Modal haplotype for haplogroup J2a in Kurds from 'Dogukoy':
| DYS 393 | DYS 390 | DYS 19 | DYS 391 | DYS 385a | DYS 385b | DYS 439 | DYS 389I | DYS 392 | DYS 389II | DYS 458 | DYS 437 | DYS 448 | DYS 456 | DYS 438 | H4 GATA | DYS 635 |
| 12 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 13 | 16 | 12 | 12 | 11 | 29 | 16 | 15 | 19 | 15 | 9 | 21 | 22 |
The closest matches at ysearch are (distance=6/17):
EJ7B6 (Xenofontov, Russia)
6WPPC (Y-DNA J2f-M67 MODAL HAPLOTYPE)
and
G8URM (CruzFajardo, Puerto Rico)
To be continued...
Where is the I1 coming from? I know I2 has the potential to be West Asian but I1 is supposedly European as it gets.
ReplyDeleteStrange to see R1a and R1b at such low frequencies?
Since Gokcumen et al., is focusing on one small Kurdish settlement only, I am not so much surprised to see such "odd" frequencies of R1a and R1b (genetic drift in a small endogamous community).
ReplyDeleteRegarding I1, this is not the first case of I1 in the Middle East or in the Kurdish community. I don't know what the source is but I find it interesting that both I1 and I2b1-M233 seems to very old. Look at the age that I posted here:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ObP_rp-cKVA/T332Q9_fHzI/AAAAAAAAABU/JGkPhStDcso/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-04-05+at+12.44.22+PM.png
True. But i1 is usually attributed to crusaders/vikings. I am surprised to see its age being that old in West Asia.
ReplyDeleteBoth are also found in Iran so would you consider these cases West Asian in general or Anatolian specifically (ie did they reach Iran by ancient neolithic demic diffusion)?
The other theory I have heard is that I is armenian admixture. But seems weird for there to armenian admixture in afghanistan.
And Armenians seem to say a lot of wrong stuff. I am still arguing with Armenians(who claim West Azerbaijan province) and Assyrians on ABF about whether they are native to NW Iran. Some are very deluded. Urartu and Hruaain kingdoms didn't speak Armenian. And NW iran doesn't belong to them but to Kurds and Azeris. Assyrians are native to N.Iraq.
"True. But i1 is usually attributed to crusaders/vikings. I am surprised to see its age being that old in West Asia."
ReplyDeleteI never heard of crusaders or vikings being present in Kurdistan. Y-haplogroup I is old in the Middle East, more than just 1000 years.
"The other theory I have heard is that I is armenian admixture. But seems weird for there to armenian admixture in afghanistan."
Not every Middle Eastern individual with haplogroup I must be explained with influx from Europe.The truth is that we have too little data about the Middle East.
Example: There is no need to explain I2 in Armenians with influx from Europe, since Armenian I2 individuals are mostly I2c (P215+ L596+ L597+ P37.2- P217- L416-)
You can find it here under I2c B (A) 14-24 L596 L597)
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2nosubcladeM170P215/default.aspx?section=ycolorized
This haplogroup hardly exists in Europe. I don't think that it came from Europe.
"Assyrians are native to N.Iraq."
Yes, but they are not the only ones.
Didn't Vikkngs even make it to the Caspian coast or Iran? And some North Iranians have North Caucasus admixture which could also explain ydna I.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Armenians they have the most I and their language is considered to have come from the Balkans.
I have been talking to DMXX about this a lot. He thought I2b1 could represent SE European farmer contact in Central Asia but said these culture were I2b2 or I2a2 which makes I2b1 weird (and he thought a West Asian Neolithic source was possible). DMXX said Nordtvedt said ydna I in Iranians could be explained by Armenians/Ottomans. looking into the ydna I among Uzbeks and Ossetians might provide a clude. Yamnya culture was supposed to have some i2 wasn't it?
Either way the history of J2b, I2, R1b-M73 and R1a-Z280+ in Central Asia is interesting and mysterious.
Also do you know where the Dahae confedrecy was located in modern day countries?
ReplyDelete"Regarding Armenians they have the most I and their language is considered to have come from the Balkans."
ReplyDeleteThats new to me. Armenians are more known to have high figures of R1b. I is more present among Kurds as far as I know. The reason why there are so many Armenians belonging to I on ftDNA is because there are many Armenians who have been tested.
Also do you know where the Dahae confedrecy was located in modern day countries?
ReplyDeleteTurkmenistan